(no subject)

[denelian]

http://whitewomensuck.blogspot.com/

i... i don't know what to say about this.

on the one hand, ANYTHING i say about this can be used as an attack against me, solely due to the fact that, as someone perceived as a white woman, anything i say MUST be coming from a position of privilege, etc. on the other hand - i have seen women of every stripe and creed act in unconscionable manner. yep, there are things that white women are *more* guilty of than other types of women - girls gone wild, i suppose. there are other negative stereotypes attached to ALL women, either by group or as a whole. same as with men. i can't help but think that the problem this guy actually has is that white women, as a group, have more power and agency than other women because we only labor under a SINGLE handicap, that of being a woman. not a "colored woman" (which i think he means to be ANY non-white woman, which is why i used it) it's not that *white women* are over-represented in the media, it's that white *people* are. and women are portrayed in only a few, stereotypical cliches. they can be
a) the shrewish wife/mother
b) the abused victim/princess
c) the smart girl who is still option B but isn't stupid
or d) a slut.

these are often mixed and matched, and more and more you are seeing non-white-women as something BESIDES D. but it is still more common for white women to have a greater depth of shallow stereotype (if that makes sense... maybe a larger width of shallow stereotype) but where there are 20 white women to every 1 non-white woman, it skews what is percieved. add to that the fact that, in the US and Europe and Australia, where most media is created, the majority of women are white, and it is quite easy to see how someone can develpe the impression that white women are catered to. take, for instance, the idea that men prefer blondes. (please! take it away). add to that the fact, at least in the societal mind (not individual minds!) women are supposed to prefer *dumb* women, and the fact that blondes are supposed to be dumb, and what do you get?

i dunno. i mean, i don't self-identify as white. i have dated everything - from mexicans to mormons (a mistake i won't repeat, mormon ideals about sex are, well... lets just say *magic underwear*, kay?). i've never dated a guy *because* of his race, and have (often) dumped guys for their racism. except for the one guy who found out after about a month that i was Cherokee and not white, *he* dumped *me* but i never regretted that one. guys are pretty much guys. for some reason, women only get to be stereotypes.

and i'm having trouble NOT believing that this guy resents white women only because they are more likely to leave him or report him for abuse (which, btw, is NOT true - statistically, *black* women are much more likely to not put up with it). its just too over-the-top, too pat, too STEREOTYPICAL and only looking at ONE CLASS of white women, too wrapped up in white women having sex with lots of guys, too obsessed with interracial relationships (but only when one person is white). and mostly, too STUPID.

Comments

[anivair.livejournal.com]

Here's the issue. It's not white women. never was. It's not about being white. it's about being an overprivelidged prissy brat. And black women rarely have the luxury of going that route. But I'm getting really sick of people in this country who think that we have racial problems when what we have are class problems. the fact that most of the money is in the hands of the white is a problem for black people, certainly, but rich white people are stopping poor people of all races from getting money. The rich keeping the poor down. that's always been the story.

[roniliquidity.livejournal.com]

Whereas I would say we have class problems AND race problems. It really doesn't have to be an either/or. I would agree that the top 10% are interested in keeping themselves the top 10%, regardless of race, but think the further down the economic chain you go, the more it becomes a race problem. The less people feel they have, the more it becomes "us" vs. "them" and race is the most easily identified trait on which to practice this.

I'm also really skeptical of any instance where members of majority group A believe members of minority group B aren't having the problems they say they're having. It's human nature to underestimate situations you don't experience regularly, it doesn't matter whether it's race gender, economic, weather, whatever.

It's like the other day when we were talking about how many Christians genuinely believe they're persecuted compared to other religions in the US. As any non-Christian can tell you, that's ridiculous, but the Christians in question are oblivious to the privilege they enjoy with regards to their religion, or easily swayed by other oblivious people. I have a friend who was aggressively liberal, pagan and bisexual in her teens and early to mid 20's, that moved to a poor, white, conservative Christian area and I have watched her gradually lose perspective on intolerance other groups, and even she herself, experienced prior to marriage, conversion and kids.

I think it's a common natural assumption, but one that fosters prejudice, and the only way to avoid it is to recognize it and exert effort to gain other perspectives, even while recognizing your experience is going to be flawed.

Which is not to say the "White Women Suck" guy is right. He has some good points about how white women as a whole are viewed compared to women of color, but he also buys up all the destructive stereotypes about women and applies them to white women in particular. He ignores the idea the people can experience privilege in some contexts, like beauty standards, while simultaneously experiencing oppression, like pay disparity or disproportionate societal pressure. Where he really fails is when he takes these assumptions/stereotypes and applies them to every single individual.

As you can see, I can go on about this all day. But I'll try not to.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

fair enough. How about this, then?

It shouldn't be a race issue.

See, race is a lie. Look at Obama and then look at Little John and you'll see that they are not the same. not even close. When people talk about "black people" what they are usually talking about is a subset of black people that fit into the same culture and by and large a lot of that IS economic more than we think. And the bits that aren't are cultural. When angry white bigots talk about blacks, they aren't talking about obama or Oprah, they're talking about the hip hop artists of TV and the kids from the local school that spray painted their truck. And they don't have a good word for those people (well, they have a word starting with N, but they don't have an acceptable word).

that is not to say that these cultural issues and economic issues don't cause race issues. I'm sure that an upper class black man still gets treated poorly in places because of the color of his skin. But I think those issues are not as common as discrimination based on people being poor or having the traits of a specific culture.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

Also, the white women suck guy is not right, but he's right about *those* white women, I'm pretty sure.

Well, that is to say, if you're happy taking your clothes off for a stranger and going down on your best friend for free, go for it. enjoy.

But at the same time, I think it's about being an over privileged brat who is bored with life, not about being white.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

also this. the effects if privilege OB the privliged is also ugly

[denelian.livejournal.com]

wow. i cannot type. what i was meaning to say here :
"the affects OF privilege ON the privileged ARE also ugly.
except i am not spelling privilege correctly. sigh

[denelian.livejournal.com]

yes! that. i knew i was missing something

blah!

[flickerflash.livejournal.com]

Liz, your stuff makes a lot of sense, just saying.. a lot of the issues you bring up are REAL issues for a lot of women...

Re: blah!

[denelian.livejournal.com]

hey, thanx :)

i try. i don't have the consistancy to be a real blogger, although i participate on various feminst blogs. it's good to know that i can still (attempt to) be relevant even on LJ

[blogofchampions.livejournal.com]

I think what he really means to say is that white privilege sucks. Or rather that is what he would mean to say if he weren't so hateful. It's clear that he doesn't really understand the concept of privilege because he thinks white women are more privileged than white men: "There are some people that believe the pedestal that white women are on extends to white men. For those who still believe this, or do not believe that white men have a legitimate complaint about white male bashing in the media need to watch this clip."

This is completely ungrounded armchair psychology, but doesn't it sound like he's just been dumped by a bunch of white women in the past? It seems like he's twisted the concept of privilege so that it excludes him and he can feel sorry for himself.

[blogofchampions.livejournal.com]

I mean, who thinks white women have it easy because they're white, but white men are totally discriminated against? That's fucked up.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

also, do i know you? its cool if i don't (really) but you seeeeeeeem familiar, and its buggin me

[blogofchampions.livejournal.com]

Naw, I don't think so. I just clicked over from Feministe. I comment there as Lauren O, but probably not often enough for anyone to recognize my writing style. Perhaps you are familiar with George Washington, who appears in my icon kicking a redcoat apart.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

he actually scares me. and don't even self ID as white. but........
he perpetrats all these other ugly stereotypes, too...

[denelian.livejournal.com]

now, actually, i think i *did* recognize you as Lauren O, or at least someone i have seen on feminste ;)
i never actually expected anyone from Feministe to come to my poor, benighted little LJ :) thank you for doing so. and for looking at crazy guy and reassuring me it's not all in my head.

also, i quite like George up there, and how he kicks Redcoat butt! (stomach? body part anyway. good to see that men, too, can b disembodied parts)