take THAT, Al Gore

[denelian]

i'm ambivilant on the whole global warming thing. on the one hand, i know that the climate makes little changes ALL ON ITS OWN, and there is proof that we are just going though a little change that is NORMAL. and i am very anti-winter, so i'm still not seeing a problem. on the OTHER hand, i am at least partially for eco-study, even if i think most people who are "green" are much too rabid.
but!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070324/ap_on_sc/arctic_bonanza

seriously - cheaper gas would be nice, until we have alterna-fuel

Comments

[xrmndml.livejournal.com]

Instead of pointing out where you are wrong, delusional, or 10 years behind the rest of the world I'll merely say if you want cheap gas, move to venesueala.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

we will agree to disagree on all this green-ness. i am not saying that the general idea is wrong, just that we can go too far. as we always do. sigh.
also, that there is LOTS to say that the reason we aren't in another moni-ice-age is because of precipitants in the air (or, pollution)

[roniliquidity.livejournal.com]

Actually, there was a summit last year where the scientists and governments of the world got together and and confirmed that global warming is fact. I can't recall the name of the summit, it was something pretty generic but it was big in the news for a while. It's really just the US that's sticking our fingers in our ears and saying "Nah nah nah"

I'm serious.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

We are the only nation in the world raving mad enough to think that global warming on a global and massive scale caused by mankind is not a solid fact. We're nuts out of our heads. Anyone who has missed this fact is just slurping up the bucket of bilge that big oil has been feeding them, ignorant of the fact that it's not delicious.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

there is the other side, put forth by OTHER people who study geology, that the earth does, in fact, go through cyclic variations - and that what is currently being experienced falls well within those parameters.

[anivair.livejournal.com]

They're right. the earth goes through cyclic variations. Far too slowly for us to properly perceive. That's like saying that if you shot up from three feet tall to twelve feet tall overnight that you're going through a pubescent growth spurt. While it's true that teenagers grow it is not normal for them to grow nine feet in a night. That's the phase we're in. While the earth may be shifting in a lot of ways, global warming is happening on top of it. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

lol!
nice metaphore ;)

we were in the beginnings of a mini-ice age at the beginning of the industrial revolution. some evidence, right now, shows that without all the precipitants in the air, we might still be moving that way. of course, other evidence from core sampling and such shows that no, we might be right where we are anyway.

yes, we are influencing which way we want the weather to go. i am just still totally unsure that A)its a bad thing for it to be 5degress (on average) warmer and B)it wouldn't have happened in the next 50-100 years anyway. or just right now.
because there are two types of cycles - long and short.
either way - i STILL say i need to be living in Luna City!!! if *they* are so worried about the harm we might do here, then *they* should work harder on all the alternatives - like space.

*grumble*

[anivair.livejournal.com]

I'd say we should work harder on this place first, since we know it works. But I'll gladly move to the moon when it becomes an alternative.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

i am not saying that there is not global warming - i am saying that there is as much evidence that it is a NATURAL occurance... and that i am not convinced it is really a bad thing

[roniliquidity.livejournal.com]

Pretty much what Joe said.

I'd say the havoc and devastation from the ice caps melting and raising the water line will likely be bad. Not Like Waterworld bad, but not good either. That's kind of the problem, if we don't how HOW bad it will be, why don't we correct the situation?

Yeah, you can find scientists that disagree, but they tend to be the tinfoil hatters, or have a questionable payroll.

[toku666.livejournal.com]

Look at carbon numbers. It's pretty much all the proof anybody needs.

And when did it start? Oh, around 1850, at about the same time we decided it would be a good idea to enslave the poor and belch as much acrid black smoke into the sky as we possibly could.

Nobody current on the issue argues against the natural cyclic component. But the amount of carbon that we have been dumping into the air for the past 150 years is a serious problem, especially considering the amount that India and China are now producing.

Also: As regards being anti-winter, one of the effects that the cycle has (whether it is solely natural or largely supplemented by man-produced carbon units) is, for people living in latitudes such as ours, greatly increased winter precipitation. So, more snow, more freezing rain, more hail and sleet. Remember when we didn't have one hundred thousand dent-repair places in Columbus? Get used to 'em.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

lol - all hail hail?

from what i here, cbus now has LESS snow than it did 20 years ago - i wouldn't know, i wasn't here...

but the freezing rain does suck

[christraven.livejournal.com]

There is still no reason not to switch to more eco-friendly fuel sources, even if they don't cause global warming.

One thing we seem to forget is that fossil fuels not only provide our gasoline/petrol fuel, but they also provide the basis for plastics, lubricants, and a host of other chemical wonders. Many of these, once they are in their final form, cannot be recycled into anything else useful (i.e. tyres - which can only be retreaded so many times before they have to be ground up into playground ground-cover).

My suggestion is this: go ahead and switch over to hydrogen, or sugarcane ethanol, or electric/solar power, or what-have-you to power our vehicles. Specifically to power our vehicles. Then we continue to use the fossil fuel oils to make lubricants, plastics, and other such materials. This way, everyone is happy - the greedy oil companies, and the greenies who have had their pet projects acknowledged by the rest of the world.

And another couple of thoughts:

1) Ambient heat from power plants, furnaces, smelters, and incinerators - how much do those contribute to global warming? Think of it as a house; your stove doesn't do much to warm the area you're in right away, furthest from the stove, but after a while the air molecules get excited enough to let you feel warmth. We are, as a species, not a very observant one, and it sometimes takes things smacking us in the head before we say "OH! Right." There are some locations that store metal for smelting at 1200 degrees F. STORE it, not process it. The amount of power it takes to sustain that, as well as the amount of heat bleed-off it generates can be staggering. One may not make much difference, but several thousand?

2) What happens if all of the cars in the world go to hydrogen power? Venting that "harmless" water into the environment? Humidity goes up. Dew-point counts and moisture rates climb. And we're stuck with some of the same problems, because everyone's generating steam and/or water exhaust, which can then exacerbate the situation by taking out ground cover, cause flooding, etc. We would also have to redesign pavements and roadways because they would be suffering the constant effects of a situation equivalent to constant rainfall. Just another nugget to think about.

And now, since I've gone on waaaaay too long, I shall take my leave of you. :D

[denelian.livejournal.com]

you have said NOTHING that i disagree with - my only point is that i think global warming has been over-hyped. *I* want a hydrogen car (or a jetson car!)

[christraven.livejournal.com]

I don't think GW has been over-hyped (because I think we should stop being such stupid fucking resource-greedy pigs), but I do agree that the fervor that some people approach it with is akin to a religious conversion with no moral barometer.

I think Hybrids are a great idea, but people need to take the South Park approach to it - don't be such fuckin' smug-asses driving around in them.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

hehehe...

and this is why i luffs you

a religion is fine. a fanataism is not ;)