I hate fundies
Jan. 3rd, 2009 04:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
denelianSo, I have a new blog I am following - foreverinhell.blogspot.com/2009/01/me-im-not.html - written by an atheist who spends a lot of time (and seems to get a lot of rage-induced enjoyment out of) ripping apart various fundy publications and position. The particular post I linked to is her shredding a fundy who claims that atheist secretly are NOT atheists, that it is apparently impossible to not believe in god, and that atheism (and Catholicism and Mormonism and Jehovah witness-ism and probably every-fucking-church under the sun that is not his church) is secretly Satanism.
First of all, I am not any flavor of Christian. I am pagan (specifically bad-draoi), and never have been, so I often think I am missing something about Christianity (some thing that makes it make more sense, if that makes any sense).
Second... by definition, atheism is not believing in god. It is the exact opposite of religion. Atheists DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. Or Satan. Or Santa, for that matter. That is what they are. It feels like circular logic, but... the thing is, the definition of atheism is either "lack of belief in god" or "believing there is no god". And while those are not quite the same thing, they both mean that atheists do NOT secretly believe that there IS a god. Atheists are not rebelling against god, or the church, or their parents by professing that there is no god when they do, in fact, believe in god but are just trying to get back at whomever by claiming they don't. THOSE people are a different word (lots of different words, actually, depending on the person).
Third. BY DEFINITION ATHEISTS DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD OR SATAN. So they canNOT be Satan-worshippers, because they DO NOT BELIEVE IN SATAN. This is one of those things that drives me FUCKING BATTY. I have been accused I do not know how many times of being a Satan worshipper, because I am pagan. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN SATAN. Therefore I cannot be worshipping Satan. Fucking get a clue.
Fourth. Satanism is NOT the same thing as devil-worshipping. Devil-worship, to the best of my researching abilities, is either a perversion of Christian rites and rituals, or an inversion of Christian rites and rituals (both are essentially the same thing and the difference seems to be the person who is writing, not any difference in what is done), either with the belief that Satan is more powerful than god and so is the appropriate one to worship, or that while Satan may not be more powerful than god he is somehow or someway more accessible and worshipping Satan has more obvious or material or just plain better perks than worshipping god. Satanism is an atheist-type religion like Buddhism. I would call it the opposite of Buddhism - where Buddhism glorifies spirituality, generosity, charity, and being good in general, Satanism glorifies all things materialistic, being selfish and bad in general. Satanists are supposed to be atheists, yes, but just as all Golden Retrievers are dogs but not all dogs are Golden Retrievers, so are all Satanists atheists but not all atheists are Satanists. (I hope that this analogy is neither confusing nor insulting, it’s just the clearest one I can come up with at the moment. I DO NOT think that atheists are dogs or dog-like).
I just don’t understand how people can believe and behave this way. Jesus was Jewish, he never converted, because he couldn’t convert because there was no Christianity until he died, yes – but he wasn’t trying to start a new religion, he was trying to reform the old one. Pretty much every form of Christianity around today (including Orthodox brands, which date from the “in nominae Christus” issue around 550AD,) is descended from Catholicism – and yet these guys run around screaming that Catholics aren’t Christian. Jesus said for everyone to love everyone else as they love him; these people are most known for how they hate everyone who isn’t just like them. Jesus said “remove the mote in thine own eye before removing the plank from thy brother’s”, meaning correct your own flaws before correcting others. He said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, meaning that ONLY those who have no sin can punish other’s for committing sin, and NO ONE is without sin. These people deliberately corrupt and degrade their own holy book, they cannot live up to their own standards (or WILL not) but expect and demand that the US government intercede and FORCE those standards on everyone else, and punish anyone who doesn’t abide by them. Except themselves, of course.
In short, people like this guy are unChristian, but demand everyone else be. And refuse to believe that there is any other option, aside from being THEIR flavor and brand of Christianity – Catholicism, Mormonism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism – anything and everything not in lock-step with they call lies and evil, and then they claim that EVERY already KNOWS that the bible and Jesus and etc are all completely true and anyone who thinks otherwise is the lying…
First Amendment, fucker. … there shall be no laws establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise of a religion. And I guess the First Amendment also means that this moron can babble on all day about how all atheists are somehow simultaneously Christians in denial and practicing Satanists. But it also means that I can call him retarded, illogical, mouth-breathing, ignorant, bigoted evil asshole.
First of all, I am not any flavor of Christian. I am pagan (specifically bad-draoi), and never have been, so I often think I am missing something about Christianity (some thing that makes it make more sense, if that makes any sense).
Second... by definition, atheism is not believing in god. It is the exact opposite of religion. Atheists DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. Or Satan. Or Santa, for that matter. That is what they are. It feels like circular logic, but... the thing is, the definition of atheism is either "lack of belief in god" or "believing there is no god". And while those are not quite the same thing, they both mean that atheists do NOT secretly believe that there IS a god. Atheists are not rebelling against god, or the church, or their parents by professing that there is no god when they do, in fact, believe in god but are just trying to get back at whomever by claiming they don't. THOSE people are a different word (lots of different words, actually, depending on the person).
Third. BY DEFINITION ATHEISTS DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD OR SATAN. So they canNOT be Satan-worshippers, because they DO NOT BELIEVE IN SATAN. This is one of those things that drives me FUCKING BATTY. I have been accused I do not know how many times of being a Satan worshipper, because I am pagan. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN SATAN. Therefore I cannot be worshipping Satan. Fucking get a clue.
Fourth. Satanism is NOT the same thing as devil-worshipping. Devil-worship, to the best of my researching abilities, is either a perversion of Christian rites and rituals, or an inversion of Christian rites and rituals (both are essentially the same thing and the difference seems to be the person who is writing, not any difference in what is done), either with the belief that Satan is more powerful than god and so is the appropriate one to worship, or that while Satan may not be more powerful than god he is somehow or someway more accessible and worshipping Satan has more obvious or material or just plain better perks than worshipping god. Satanism is an atheist-type religion like Buddhism. I would call it the opposite of Buddhism - where Buddhism glorifies spirituality, generosity, charity, and being good in general, Satanism glorifies all things materialistic, being selfish and bad in general. Satanists are supposed to be atheists, yes, but just as all Golden Retrievers are dogs but not all dogs are Golden Retrievers, so are all Satanists atheists but not all atheists are Satanists. (I hope that this analogy is neither confusing nor insulting, it’s just the clearest one I can come up with at the moment. I DO NOT think that atheists are dogs or dog-like).
I just don’t understand how people can believe and behave this way. Jesus was Jewish, he never converted, because he couldn’t convert because there was no Christianity until he died, yes – but he wasn’t trying to start a new religion, he was trying to reform the old one. Pretty much every form of Christianity around today (including Orthodox brands, which date from the “in nominae Christus” issue around 550AD,) is descended from Catholicism – and yet these guys run around screaming that Catholics aren’t Christian. Jesus said for everyone to love everyone else as they love him; these people are most known for how they hate everyone who isn’t just like them. Jesus said “remove the mote in thine own eye before removing the plank from thy brother’s”, meaning correct your own flaws before correcting others. He said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, meaning that ONLY those who have no sin can punish other’s for committing sin, and NO ONE is without sin. These people deliberately corrupt and degrade their own holy book, they cannot live up to their own standards (or WILL not) but expect and demand that the US government intercede and FORCE those standards on everyone else, and punish anyone who doesn’t abide by them. Except themselves, of course.
In short, people like this guy are unChristian, but demand everyone else be. And refuse to believe that there is any other option, aside from being THEIR flavor and brand of Christianity – Catholicism, Mormonism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism – anything and everything not in lock-step with they call lies and evil, and then they claim that EVERY already KNOWS that the bible and Jesus and etc are all completely true and anyone who thinks otherwise is the lying…
First Amendment, fucker. … there shall be no laws establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise of a religion. And I guess the First Amendment also means that this moron can babble on all day about how all atheists are somehow simultaneously Christians in denial and practicing Satanists. But it also means that I can call him retarded, illogical, mouth-breathing, ignorant, bigoted evil asshole.
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Date: 2009-01-18 08:31 pm (UTC)they do cover the basics, though, don't think. i'm going to try and find that book; i agree with a lot about 4, not specifically as applied to this law, but specifically that a lot of what i HAVE learned about the history is that many things were a blatant rejection of Rome and Roman ways, and so your interpretation makes a lot of sense to me, given those thoughts.
thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out! i will definitly find the book you are quoting. its probably fascinating.